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residential developers develop residential, and neither is very good at the other; but mixed-use developers develop mixed-use projects and understand how to build them, design them, market them, and rent/lease them out. He added that a retail specialist would answer a retail question differently than a mixed-use development specialist would. Mr. Williams indicated that these retail spaces are set up around mixed-use developments, and the criteria used are about that type of development. He added that retail can fit in either types of buildings, but whether 40 feet is a reasonable depth is pushing the envelope of being right on the edge of being too shallow. He indicated that this is a reasonable compromise, but he believes 60 feet is what almost every retailer will say is the best retail depth. Chair Narum inquired how wide a building with a 60 foot depth would be. Mr. Williams replied that he would expect 30 feet wide by 60 feet, or 60 feet by 60 feet, which would be a reasonable depth and width at 3, 600 square feet or almost all of the 5,000 square feet. Chair Narum stated that 3,600 square feet would be for only one corner, but the Commission specified two corners. Commissioner O'Connor noted that the Commission is not mandating two corners but only one or the other. He noted that if one corner is 60 feet by 60 feet, the space left is would be very narrow for another 60 feet. Commissioner Pentin stated that the second corner would not be 60 feet. Mr. Williams indicated that this is not a critical issue and that when the applicants get through the eventual design, they will find that if they work on the retail space thinking about it for retail, they will end up coming up with a solution that works. He noted that the worst thing that can happen is to have someone come in and design a project that does not care about the retail space, and they will not include what is necessary to ensure a café or restaurant, they will not put in all the shafts for all the utilities, and they will not provide the right acoustics needed for building out tenant spaces appropriately. He noted that this is not something included in the design guidelines, but these are needed to get a development that is going to be successful for retail. Mr. Williams stated that the reason most retails are not successful in a mixed-use development is because those who built it wanted a residential development rather than a mixed-use development, and it does not work because it was not designed or marketed appropriately. He indicated that Mr. Fleissig has done hundreds of thousands of feet of retail and mixed-use developments, and he would not put in a unit that was that narrow if the City is trying to get a successful retail space. EXCERPT: PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES, January 26, 2011 Page 37 of 40